tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6072479063452233450.post7157498038483282773..comments2024-03-13T19:28:05.813-04:00Comments on Ohio Birds and Biodiversity: Kirtland's snakeJim McCormachttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07444322057532066466noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6072479063452233450.post-14703880891285346242012-02-10T11:53:18.994-05:002012-02-10T11:53:18.994-05:00Thank you for the sensible critique. Me and my nei...<b>Thank you for the sensible critique. Me and my neighbor were just preparing to do some research on this. We got a grab a book from our area library but I think I learned more clear from this post. I'm very glad to see such great information being shared freely out there.</b><br><a href="https://sites.google.com/a/lowprice.buyordersale.objs.biz/best-buy-internal-frame-backpacks-backpacks-and-bags-sportinggoods-on-sale/cheap-high-sierra-classic-series-59401-sentinel-65-internal-frame-pack" rel="nofollow">High Sierra Classic Series 59401 Sentinel 65 Internal Frame Pack</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6072479063452233450.post-34285547641468484132012-02-04T23:07:40.390-05:002012-02-04T23:07:40.390-05:00In addition, the second photo shows 3 rows of temp...In addition, the second photo shows 3 rows of temporal scales (1+2+2), consistent with queen snake scalation, whereas the Kirtland's snake has only two rows (1+2).Andrew Dursohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04720822623046554913noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6072479063452233450.post-15674145798678992182012-02-04T20:02:31.268-05:002012-02-04T20:02:31.268-05:00I think this is a queen snake - it's lacking t...I think this is a queen snake - it's lacking the white notch in the dark section of the last supralabial scale, and the cream-colored lateral stripe is indicative of queen snakes, but not Kirtland's. A shot of the ventral side would tell for sure.Andrew Dursohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04720822623046554913noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6072479063452233450.post-73473253698172787872012-02-03T15:47:54.652-05:002012-02-03T15:47:54.652-05:00I'll agree with Jason & Peter on this one....I'll agree with Jason & Peter on this one. This snake is definitely a Queen Snake.Nick Scobelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15390548598064298678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6072479063452233450.post-70269895834883681202012-02-03T11:00:35.661-05:002012-02-03T11:00:35.661-05:00Brian,
Respectfully, the head and body shape are...Brian, <br /><br />Respectfully, the head and body shape are not right for Clonophis, they are way off. Clonophis tend to have a slightly blunted head, and the neck is "missing". The base of the skull flows right into the body without much of a taper. The animal pictured has a tapered snout and a well defined neck. The body appears too long and svelte for a kirtlands. This animal screams queen snake. Also, others, including myself, have observed all kirtlands have a white notch in the dark section of the last supra labial scale, which this animal does not have. I have also observed Ohio queens with the dark shoe polish head. If you do a quick google search you will see other examples of this. I think the rusty color can be easily explained by an animal that just crawled out of its hibernacula, and is either discoloration from soil or mineral deposits. I don't understand why we are trying fit a square peg in a round hole. The most likely answer is queen for a number of reasons. Based on location, activity and habitat, kirtlands is a huge stretch, before we even look at the animal. Finally, in regards to length, I don't trust anyones length guess with out actually handling and measuring the animal. Snake lengths suprise me all the time. I would try to email pics to help illustrate these points, but I am typing from my phone in the airport. Going to be be off the grid soon, back country kayaking the everglades and then herping san diego.Buckeyeherperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04511804617379162369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6072479063452233450.post-63412696681756693332012-02-03T08:53:56.139-05:002012-02-03T08:53:56.139-05:00Thanks Brian-Anonymous,
I'm not sure what'...Thanks Brian-Anonymous,<br />I'm not sure what's up with the computer time post -- your response was very helpful, but it wasn't there yet when I clicked into the blog well after 8 a.m. (EST)Ron G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/09465500165680820703noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6072479063452233450.post-51160681344094455872012-02-03T08:34:22.236-05:002012-02-03T08:34:22.236-05:00When I saw the photo I immediately thought Queen S...When I saw the photo I immediately thought Queen Snake; but I'm no herp expert. I'm not familiar with Kirtland's; so I'm curious what Jeff observed on this snake to decide Kirtland's. Thanks!<br />Ron GambleRon G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/09465500165680820703noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6072479063452233450.post-68220063728706788712012-02-03T07:49:07.640-05:002012-02-03T07:49:07.640-05:00I definitely agree with Jeff. This is an unusually...I definitely agree with Jeff. This is an unusually patterned Kirtland's. The head and body shape are right, and although lacking the spotted pattern on the body, the shoe-polish black head is exactly right for Kirtland's; You would never see that on a queen. The background reddish color is just right also. Kirtland's has some white/cream along the sides, that creeps up between the lower part of the black blotches, but the color of most of the back is the reddish color shown in this snake. Queen snakes are much more brown in tone, milk chocolate, mocha etc. Queen snakes have thicker necks,bigger heads, bigger eyes, broader snouts, and longer tails than this.<br />Also, if as Jim says, it was a little over a foot, it is NOT the size of a queen snake. A queen at only a little over a foot is a young snake and thus would be way more slenderly proportioned . This one is quite stockily proportioned for that length. It's just the right length and proportions for a Kirtland's though.<br /><br />BrianAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6072479063452233450.post-8006907170679909232012-02-02T22:27:40.785-05:002012-02-02T22:27:40.785-05:00I also agree with Jason. When I first saw that pic...I also agree with Jason. When I first saw that picture, I said to myself, "Wow, that isn't typical habitat." Limestone creeks are certainly not normal Kirtland's habitat. When I blew up the picture and took a look at it, it immediately struck me that it wasn't a Kirtland's. Both Queen snakes and Kirtland's are cool little snakes,though, and either way it's a neat thing to see if it was seen this time of year.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6072479063452233450.post-90048581373089852012-02-02T17:00:35.236-05:002012-02-02T17:00:35.236-05:00Jim - I have to respectfully disagree with Jeff. ...Jim - I have to respectfully disagree with Jeff. We have spent tons of time in the field together, and he know's his stuff better than most, but I am not buying Clonophis on this one. I seen a few Clonophis out on the move in wet fields, but never basking. I am sure they could do it... It just strikes me as an obvious queen snake. It is sitting next to a creek, in a queen snake part of the snake, looks to be the size of a queen snake, has the same base color of a queen and the head of a queen snake. It just seems to be the more obvious pick in this situation. I actually have pictures of a queen snake from Adams Co, OH that has very dark and almost unnoticable lateral stripes, similar to this animal. It isn't as rusty red of a color, but this could be from soil/minerals in the area.<br /><br />You can check out www.buckeyeherps.com for images of Queen Snakes as well as Kirtland's Snakes from all over Ohio (well maybe not the Kirtland's).<br /><br />Anyway, excellent pictures and discussion either way. I really don't think it is a kirtland's, but queen snakes are pretty cool too!<br /><br />Jason FoltBuckeyeherperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04511804617379162369noreply@blogger.com